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Post by DB on May 22, 2008 1:45:34 GMT -5
People like to have more solid role players come out of the late first round IMO, and maybe have some second rounders that turn out good. It does happen every now and then from your drafts but I feel like 12-15 on is pretty shit player wise lately.
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Post by Ducky on May 22, 2008 2:01:08 GMT -5
People like to have more solid role players come out of the late first round IMO, and maybe have some second rounders that turn out good. It does happen every now and then from your drafts but I feel like 12-15 on is pretty shit player wise lately. 15 - Memphis Grizzlies - Gerald Henderson SG 6'5'' 215 23 C+ C C- B+ C- A 17 - New Orleans Hornets - Anthony McClain C 7'0'' 235 22 B- D D+ B- C+ B 19 - New York Knicks - Michael Dunigan C 6'10'' 240 20 C+ D+ C- C+ C+ A 20 - Seattle Sonics - Alexey Shved PG 6'7'' 185 21 C C B- B- D+ A There were 4 late first players that turned out to be pretty good players. 1 allstar, 2 very good big men, and a great defending SG/SF who is still around. And there's been tons of 2nds with good potential, you guys just suck at drafting.  Kenny Battle Jr. had 100 potential, but no one drafted him, that's not my fault lol. |
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Post by Ducky on May 22, 2008 2:03:10 GMT -5
And then 2011...
17 Sacramento Kings - DeJuan Blair PF 6'7'' 250 23 B- D+ D+ C+ C+ B
21 New Orleans Hornets - Ralph Sampson Jr. C 7'0'' 235 22 C+ C D B- C B
22 Atlanta Hawks - Kemba Walker PG 6'2'' 180 21 B- C B- C D+ A
24 Memphis Grizzlies - Elijah Johnson PG 6'3'' 185 20 C+ C+ C+ C+ C- B
All these guys turned out to be really good role players. Sampson, Blair, and Walker were all very solid starters.
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Post by DB on May 22, 2008 2:06:47 GMT -5
People like to have more solid role players come out of the late first round IMO, and maybe have some second rounders that turn out good. It does happen every now and then from your drafts but I feel like 12-15 on is pretty shit player wise lately. 15 - Memphis Grizzlies - Gerald Henderson SG 6'5'' 215 23 C+ C C- B+ C- A 17 - New Orleans Hornets - Anthony McClain C 7'0'' 235 22 B- D D+ B- C+ B 19 - New York Knicks - Michael Dunigan C 6'10'' 240 20 C+ D+ C- C+ C+ A 20 - Seattle Sonics - Alexey Shved PG 6'7'' 185 21 C C B- B- D+ A There were 4 late first players that turned out to be pretty good players. 1 allstar, 2 very good big men, and a great defending SG/SF who is still around. And there's been tons of 2nds with good potential, you guys just suck at drafting. Kenny Battle Jr. had 100 potential, but no one drafted him, that's not my fault lol. Its not being "good" at drafting at that point though ducky, there is nothing that you can evaluate and look for. We just see ratings with a name, and by the second round most guys are the same. It is all luck, and if you get lucky picking the 100 pot guy that that is good for you, i do not consider it good drafting at all. Those are just a few guys, I would like to see more of this through out each of the drafts. We see a lot of busts, we see a lot of mediocre players. I don't at some point I think this leagues ratings will be really low. |
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Post by Ducky on May 22, 2008 2:26:10 GMT -5
15 - Memphis Grizzlies - Gerald Henderson SG 6'5'' 215 23 C+ C C- B+ C- A 17 - New Orleans Hornets - Anthony McClain C 7'0'' 235 22 B- D D+ B- C+ B 19 - New York Knicks - Michael Dunigan C 6'10'' 240 20 C+ D+ C- C+ C+ A 20 - Seattle Sonics - Alexey Shved PG 6'7'' 185 21 C C B- B- D+ A There were 4 late first players that turned out to be pretty good players. 1 allstar, 2 very good big men, and a great defending SG/SF who is still around. And there's been tons of 2nds with good potential, you guys just suck at drafting. Kenny Battle Jr. had 100 potential, but no one drafted him, that's not my fault lol. Its not being "good" at drafting at that point though ducky, there is nothing that you can evaluate and look for. We just see ratings with a name, and by the second round most guys are the same. It is all luck, and if you get lucky picking the 100 pot guy that that is good for you, i do not consider it good drafting at all. Those are just a few guys, I would like to see more of this through out each of the drafts. We see a lot of busts, we see a lot of mediocre players. I don't at some point I think this leagues ratings will be really low. But Dan, that's how drafts usually are... I picked the 2000 draft, and look: www.nbadraft.net/2000.htmAfter the lottery, Mateen Cleaves Michigan St. Sr. PG 6-2 190 BUST Jason Collier Georgia Tech Sr. C 7-0 230 BUST Hidayet Türkoglu Efes Pilsen (Turkey) SF 6-8 1979 Solid Starter Desmond Mason Oklahoma St. Sr. SG 6-6 207 A few solid years, but nothing special. Quentin Richardson Depaul So. SG 6-6 225, Again he had some solid years, but nothing special. Jamaal Magloire Kentucky Sr. PF 6-9 230, comparable to Dunigan in my draft file... Craig Claxton Hofstra Sr. PG 5-11 180 BUST Morris Peterson Michigan St. Sr. SG/SF 6-6 215, good shooter, but not much else. Donnell Harvey Florida Fr. PF 6-8 216 BUST DeShawn Stevenson Washington Union HS SG 6-5 210, sucked for Dalibor Bagaric Benston Zagreb (Croatia) C 7-1 215 1980 BUST Jake Tsakalidis AEK Greece (Sukhumi, Georgia) C 7-2 220 BUST Mamadou N'diaye Auburn Sr. C 7-0 235 BUST Primoz Brezec Olimpija Ljubljana (Slovenia) C 7-0 1979, sucks, a couple nice years with char but thats about it. Erick Barkley St Johns So. PG 6-1 170 BUST Mark Madsen Stanford Sr. PF 6-8 235 BUST My 2010 draft file is 9 years later, and I have better role players from 14-30 then the NBA did. Seriously, the best player to come from that group is Turk, with like B- A- C+ B- ratings. And if u look at that draft, the lotto sucks dick. All the guys were busts. Jcraw, Mike Miller were the 2 best picks? I know I chose a bad draft, but still, if you look at most drafts, typically only 4-5 players in the 15-30 range ever pan out to be something. |
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Post by Ducky on May 22, 2008 2:28:14 GMT -5
Here, I'll pick a strong draft. 1996.
BOLD = Stud/Allstar
Italicized = decent Starter
Nothing = bust/backup
14. Sacramento Predrag Stojakovic PAOK (Greece)
15. Phoenix Steve Nash Santa Clara
16. Charlotte (from Miami) Tony Delk Kentucky
17. Portland Jermaine O'Neal Eau Claire HS
18. New York (from Detroit) John Wallace Syracuse
19. New York (from Atlanta) Walter McCarty Kentucky
20. Cleveland Zydrunas Ilgauskas Lithuania
21. New York Dontae Jones Mississippi State
22. Vancouver (from Houston) Roy Rogers Alabama
23. Denver (from Indiana) Efthimis Rentzias PAOK
24. LA Lakers Derek Fisher Arkansas-Little Rock
25. Utah (b) Martin Muursepp BC Kalev Tallinn
26. Detroit (from San Antonio) Jerome Williams Georgetown
27. Orlando Brian Evans Indiana
28. Atlanta (from Seattle) Priest Lauderdale Peristeri (Greece)
29. Chicago Travis Knight Connecticut
This is one of the stronger drafts ever in NBA history. And still, there isn't much in the mid-late first range...
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Post by Ducky on May 22, 2008 2:30:18 GMT -5
15 - Memphis Grizzlies - Gerald Henderson SG 6'5'' 215 23 C+ C C- B+ C- A 17 - New Orleans Hornets - Anthony McClain C 7'0'' 235 22 B- D D+ B- C+ B 19 - New York Knicks - Michael Dunigan C 6'10'' 240 20 C+ D+ C- C+ C+ A 20 - Seattle Sonics - Alexey Shved PG 6'7'' 185 21 C C B- B- D+ A There were 4 late first players that turned out to be pretty good players. 1 allstar, 2 very good big men, and a great defending SG/SF who is still around. And there's been tons of 2nds with good potential, you guys just suck at drafting. Kenny Battle Jr. had 100 potential, but no one drafted him, that's not my fault lol. Its not being "good" at drafting at that point though ducky, there is nothing that you can evaluate and look for. We just see ratings with a name, and by the second round most guys are the same. It is all luck, and if you get lucky picking the 100 pot guy that that is good for you, i do not consider it good drafting at all. What do you consider good draft for late firsts and 2nd rounders then? You act like it's bad if late firsts and second round picks are really random and lucky. That's how it is in real life though. You get lucky if you draft a Michael Redd or a Manu Ginobili. I'm just saying, my draft files are pretty good IMO. And if anything, I probably overrate my files and put too much into them. But I won't change that, cuz that'd make drafts boring and not level to the league ratings. |
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Post by DB on May 22, 2008 9:51:03 GMT -5
Its not being "good" at drafting at that point though ducky, there is nothing that you can evaluate and look for. We just see ratings with a name, and by the second round most guys are the same. It is all luck, and if you get lucky picking the 100 pot guy that that is good for you, i do not consider it good drafting at all. What do you consider good draft for late firsts and 2nd rounders then? You act like it's bad if late firsts and second round picks are really random and lucky. That's how it is in real life though. You get lucky if you draft a Michael Redd or a Manu Ginobili. I'm just saying, my draft files are pretty good IMO. And if anything, I probably overrate my files and put too much into them. But I won't change that, cuz that'd make drafts boring and not level to the league ratings. you said we suck at drafting and basically it is are fault that we did not draft kenny battle. This is a sim league, we do not have enough information on these guys to even know anything about them prior to playing so how would we know to pick him when they all pretty much look the same rating wise at that point. You do not overrate your files at all. It would be nice if you had 1-2 studs, then 10-12 good players, than some role players, then busts, etc. I feel like you let busts happen way to often. |
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Post by DB on May 22, 2008 9:52:14 GMT -5
Its not being "good" at drafting at that point though ducky, there is nothing that you can evaluate and look for. We just see ratings with a name, and by the second round most guys are the same. It is all luck, and if you get lucky picking the 100 pot guy that that is good for you, i do not consider it good drafting at all. Those are just a few guys, I would like to see more of this through out each of the drafts. We see a lot of busts, we see a lot of mediocre players. I don't at some point I think this leagues ratings will be really low. But Dan, that's how drafts usually are... I picked the 2000 draft, and look: www.nbadraft.net/2000.htmAfter the lottery, Mateen Cleaves Michigan St. Sr. PG 6-2 190 BUST Jason Collier Georgia Tech Sr. C 7-0 230 BUST Hidayet Türkoglu Efes Pilsen (Turkey) SF 6-8 1979 Solid Starter Desmond Mason Oklahoma St. Sr. SG 6-6 207 A few solid years, but nothing special. Quentin Richardson Depaul So. SG 6-6 225, Again he had some solid years, but nothing special. Jamaal Magloire Kentucky Sr. PF 6-9 230, comparable to Dunigan in my draft file... Craig Claxton Hofstra Sr. PG 5-11 180 BUST Morris Peterson Michigan St. Sr. SG/SF 6-6 215, good shooter, but not much else. Donnell Harvey Florida Fr. PF 6-8 216 BUST DeShawn Stevenson Washington Union HS SG 6-5 210, sucked for Dalibor Bagaric Benston Zagreb (Croatia) C 7-1 215 1980 BUST Jake Tsakalidis AEK Greece (Sukhumi, Georgia) C 7-2 220 BUST Mamadou N'diaye Auburn Sr. C 7-0 235 BUST Primoz Brezec Olimpija Ljubljana (Slovenia) C 7-0 1979, sucks, a couple nice years with char but thats about it. Erick Barkley St Johns So. PG 6-1 170 BUST Mark Madsen Stanford Sr. PF 6-8 235 BUST My 2010 draft file is 9 years later, and I have better role players from 14-30 then the NBA did. Seriously, the best player to come from that group is Turk, with like B- A- C+ B- ratings. And if u look at that draft, the lotto sucks dick. All the guys were busts. Jcraw, Mike Miller were the 2 best picks? I know I chose a bad draft, but still, if you look at most drafts, typically only 4-5 players in the 15-30 range ever pan out to be something. the point is all these guys that you said are "solid" they sucked in this league. I do not remember all their ratings, but none were anything. |
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Post by DB on May 22, 2008 9:53:39 GMT -5
Here, I'll pick a strong draft. 1996. BOLD = Stud/Allstar Italicized = decent Starter Nothing = bust/backup 14. Sacramento Predrag Stojakovic PAOK (Greece)15. Phoenix Steve Nash Santa Clara16. Charlotte (from Miami) Tony Delk Kentucky 17. Portland Jermaine O'Neal Eau Claire HS18. New York (from Detroit) John Wallace Syracuse 19. New York (from Atlanta) Walter McCarty Kentucky 20. Cleveland Zydrunas Ilgauskas Lithuania21. New York Dontae Jones Mississippi State 22. Vancouver (from Houston) Roy Rogers Alabama 23. Denver (from Indiana) Efthimis Rentzias PAOK 24. LA Lakers Derek Fisher Arkansas-Little Rock25. Utah (b) Martin Muursepp BC Kalev Tallinn 26. Detroit (from San Antonio) Jerome Williams Georgetown 27. Orlando Brian Evans Indiana 28. Atlanta (from Seattle) Priest Lauderdale Peristeri (Greece) 29. Chicago Travis Knight Connecticut This is one of the stronger drafts ever in NBA history. And still, there isn't much in the mid-late first range... Again, what were these studs ratings here? I do not remember, but the point is your ratings are not that good to come into the league so a lot of these guys bust that you want to have good career, i have seen it many times from what you say. |
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Post by DB on May 22, 2008 9:55:18 GMT -5
I do like most of your draft files, it is just how I feel lately. Keep doing what your doing it is your league, I just wanted to point out something i know most gms felt.
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Post by Ducky on May 22, 2008 13:01:00 GMT -5
What do you consider good draft for late firsts and 2nd rounders then? You act like it's bad if late firsts and second round picks are really random and lucky. That's how it is in real life though. You get lucky if you draft a Michael Redd or a Manu Ginobili. I'm just saying, my draft files are pretty good IMO. And if anything, I probably overrate my files and put too much into them. But I won't change that, cuz that'd make drafts boring and not level to the league ratings. you said we suck at drafting and basically it is are fault that we did not draft kenny battle. This is a sim league, we do not have enough information on these guys to even know anything about them prior to playing so how would we know to pick him when they all pretty much look the same rating wise at that point. You do not overrate your files at all. It would be nice if you had 1-2 studs, then 10-12 good players, than some role players, then busts, etc. I feel like you let busts happen way to often. Oh I see, well seriously, Kenny Battle was projected as a early-mid 2nd round choice. I said you guys sucked at drafting, cuz no one was at the draft for the 2nd round, nor sent a list. If someone had just looked where I had Kenny ranked, they would have at least taken him based on where I rated him, instead of C- getting drafted. |
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Post by Ducky on May 22, 2008 13:04:42 GMT -5
But Dan, that's how drafts usually are... I picked the 2000 draft, and look: www.nbadraft.net/2000.htmAfter the lottery, Mateen Cleaves Michigan St. Sr. PG 6-2 190 BUST Jason Collier Georgia Tech Sr. C 7-0 230 BUST Hidayet Türkoglu Efes Pilsen (Turkey) SF 6-8 1979 Solid Starter Desmond Mason Oklahoma St. Sr. SG 6-6 207 A few solid years, but nothing special. Quentin Richardson Depaul So. SG 6-6 225, Again he had some solid years, but nothing special. Jamaal Magloire Kentucky Sr. PF 6-9 230, comparable to Dunigan in my draft file... Craig Claxton Hofstra Sr. PG 5-11 180 BUST Morris Peterson Michigan St. Sr. SG/SF 6-6 215, good shooter, but not much else. Donnell Harvey Florida Fr. PF 6-8 216 BUST DeShawn Stevenson Washington Union HS SG 6-5 210, sucked for Dalibor Bagaric Benston Zagreb (Croatia) C 7-1 215 1980 BUST Jake Tsakalidis AEK Greece (Sukhumi, Georgia) C 7-2 220 BUST Mamadou N'diaye Auburn Sr. C 7-0 235 BUST Primoz Brezec Olimpija Ljubljana (Slovenia) C 7-0 1979, sucks, a couple nice years with char but thats about it. Erick Barkley St Johns So. PG 6-1 170 BUST Mark Madsen Stanford Sr. PF 6-8 235 BUST My 2010 draft file is 9 years later, and I have better role players from 14-30 then the NBA did. Seriously, the best player to come from that group is Turk, with like B- A- C+ B- ratings. And if u look at that draft, the lotto sucks dick. All the guys were busts. Jcraw, Mike Miller were the 2 best picks? I know I chose a bad draft, but still, if you look at most drafts, typically only 4-5 players in the 15-30 range ever pan out to be something. the point is all these guys that you said are "solid" they sucked in this league. I do not remember all their ratings, but none were anything. 15 - Memphis Grizzlies - Gerald Henderson SG 6'5'' 215 23 C+ C C- B+ C- A 17 - New Orleans Hornets - Anthony McClain C 7'0'' 235 22 B- D D+ B- C+ B Started almost every single game in his career. 19 - New York Knicks - Michael Dunigan C 6'10'' 240 20 C+ D+ C- C+ C+ A He hasn't gotten a chance really B- ? ? B+ B+ B ratings are pretty nice. 20 - Seattle Sonics - Alexey Shved PG 6'7'' 185 21 C C B- B- D+ A One of the better PGs in the league. 17 Sacramento Kings - DeJuan Blair PF 6'7'' 250 23 B- D+ D+ C+ C+ B Starter. 21 New Orleans Hornets - Ralph Sampson Jr. C 7'0'' 235 22 C+ C D B- C B DPOY + Starter. 22 Atlanta Hawks - Kemba Walker PG 6'2'' 180 21 B- C B- C D+ A Starter. 24 Memphis Grizzlies - Elijah Johnson PG 6'3'' 185 20 C+ C+ C+ C+ C- B Solid bench player with C+ B- C+ A ratings... And there are other decent players in this range too, guys who played bench and crap. I honestly think you guys overreact a bit too much. Sure I think 4-5 players for each draft file from the 15-30 range should actually become something. That's have I always done it. If you don't like those odds, than you can always trade your pick. |
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Post by nova on May 22, 2008 13:05:56 GMT -5
I like the drafts honestly. The first 5-6 seasons I felt they were too weak, but since then they've gotten a lot better.
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Post by Ducky on May 22, 2008 13:10:49 GMT -5
Here, I'll pick a strong draft. 1996. BOLD = Stud/Allstar Italicized = decent Starter Nothing = bust/backup 14. Sacramento Predrag Stojakovic PAOK (Greece)15. Phoenix Steve Nash Santa Clara16. Charlotte (from Miami) Tony Delk Kentucky 17. Portland Jermaine O'Neal Eau Claire HS18. New York (from Detroit) John Wallace Syracuse 19. New York (from Atlanta) Walter McCarty Kentucky 20. Cleveland Zydrunas Ilgauskas Lithuania21. New York Dontae Jones Mississippi State 22. Vancouver (from Houston) Roy Rogers Alabama 23. Denver (from Indiana) Efthimis Rentzias PAOK 24. LA Lakers Derek Fisher Arkansas-Little Rock25. Utah (b) Martin Muursepp BC Kalev Tallinn 26. Detroit (from San Antonio) Jerome Williams Georgetown 27. Orlando Brian Evans Indiana 28. Atlanta (from Seattle) Priest Lauderdale Peristeri (Greece) 29. Chicago Travis Knight Connecticut This is one of the stronger drafts ever in NBA history. And still, there isn't much in the mid-late first range... Again, what were these studs ratings here? I do not remember, but the point is your ratings are not that good to come into the league so a lot of these guys bust that you want to have good career, i have seen it many times from what you say. This is probably what you get from the 15-30 range: 1 to 2 studs. excluding the studs, about 2 to 3 more starters (meaning 3 to 5 starters overall) After that you have like the rest to be half backups and half busts. IF you don't like it that way, that's cool. You can have your own opinion, however, I feel it's a bit more realistic that way, and also it's been working fine IMO for the league. And here are the studs I was talking about... 20 - Seattle Sonics - Alexey Shved PG 6'7'' 185 21 C C B- B- D+ A (2010 draft) 21 New Orleans Hornets - Ralph Sampson Jr. C 7'0'' 235 22 C+ C D B- C B (2011 draft) |
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Kenny Battle Jr. had 100 potential, but no one drafted him, that's not my fault lol.
